[renegades]

Ok people,just trying this one out seen as the FOR SALE section in this format is relatively new here,it may be an idea to have a thread running with pointers in it solely on buying a secondhand bike,a sort of what to look for in the bikes general condition and not on any specific model,i'll list some off the top of my head what i generally look for when buying secondhand but the list could be long,it would be good if people could add bits to it that are relative to buying a secondhand bike...

Has the present owner got the logbook when its time to do the deal,,if not i generally walk away from it,telling them when they locate it to give me a call back...

In the case of Northern Irish or U.K reg bikes their equivilant would be a V5 issued by the D.V.L.A...

If the owner gives you the registration number beforehand(presuming it's Irish registered) run a check on it on www.mywheels.ie...possibly sticked on the main page of the for sale page...there is a U.K equivilant if someone could stick up the details..

If the bike is Foreign registered including N.I and the U.K,try to find out the exact date of first registration and do a V.R.T (Vehicle Registration Tax)check to see what amount of duty is payable on it,all vehicles imported into Ireland have to pay V.R.T,think it's payable within 48 hours otherwise the bike can be impounded if stopped,this can be paid at your local V.R.T office,but beware they do not accept cash payment,laser or personal check..www.revenue.ie possibly stickied on the main page of the for sale page also..

Some of the checks on the bike that i look for...

Frame number/usually up at the heastock area around the main frame under the top yoke...make sure it has'nt been tampered with,1's made to look like 7's..6,s made to look like 8's etc...

Engine number/can be found usually lower down stamped into the main engine casings/some of the newer sports bikes GSXR'S etc can have the engine number stamped on the main engine cases just below the main swingarm pivot point,can be hard to find if your not sure where your looking..again make sure the numbers have'nt been tampered with..

Both of the above checks are pretty useless if the owner has'nt the logbook or V5 to hand as you've nothing to compare them against...
FRAME...
The main frame itself,,give it a good look over for any signs of hairline cracks,stressed areas,,check down on the bottom yoke if the lockstops on the yoke are bent or the main lock stop on the bottom of the frame headstock to make sure it isnt bent or marked up in any way,,the main frame itself,some aftermarket companies supply carbon frame covers as a nice bling bling touch but these can also cover up damage to the frame,,advisable to check underneath,if the seller is genuine and not hiding anything he should'nt mind removing them for a check...

FORKS...
i usually run my finger along them to see if there is any ripples in them,,can be a sign they were stressed with an accident..check the chrome on the fork sliders for wear,can be expensive to replace the sliders,,hold the front brake and pump the forks up and down a couple of times and check for oil on the fork legs to see if the seals need replacing..
BRAKES AND DISCS..
look at the discs front and back for signs of scoring,,where an owner may have let the pads wear down well beyond their limit,discs will need replacing,check thickness of the discs,,minimum disc thickness would be around 4mm..roll the bike forward and listen for any rubbing of the discs against the brake pads,,sign of a warped disc,,get down on the hands and knees and check the underside of the brake calipers to have a look at the brake pads and what life is left in them,should be an indicator line down the centre of the pad and it will show you how much life is left in the brake pads..

CHAIN AND SPROCKETS..
Have a look at the indicator marks etched into the swingarm where the rear wheel axle go's through and the plates that the axle passes through,both will give you an indication as to how much life is left in the chain,if its getting to to near it's furthestmost point on the swingarm the chain will need replacing soon,look at the teeth on the back sprocket to see their condition,how much wear on them,are they getting really pointy or starting to hook in one direction,believe me i have seen sprockets with teeth missing or that much wear that the chain is slipping off the teeth,,make sure the chain is tensioned when checking it,that the owner has'nt left it in approx the half way position on the swingarm markings with the chain loose to give the impression theres lots of life left in it,,when tightened the chain should'nt be solid that theres no movement in it,there should be approx an inch or so of up and down movement with the finger on it..

WHEELS AND TYRES..
check the edges of the wheel rims for scuffing/sure sign the bike has been slid down the road,,normal pinch marks happen with clumsy tyre changes,check the wheel paint to see have they been touched up hiding any visible damage,,if the bike has a centre stand,get it up on it and see if you can pull either wheel from side to side looking for movement which will result in the wheel bearings having to be replaced,,check the tyres for wear or see if their squared off,check the side walls of the tyres for any damage,,look for uneven wear of the the tyres,is the tyre wearing more on one side than the other,,could be out of balance,the owner may have preffered left to right hand corners or used a lot of roundabouts continueously taking 1st or 3rd exits if there is a centre stand try spinning the wheels to check for distortions/buckles..again if the bike has a centre stand,try moving the handlebars from side to side which should be free movement,feel for catching or listen for clicking/possibility head race bearings need replacing....

ENGINE....
i generally like to get the owner to start it up from cold/not always possible as most owners wont meet you at their house for security reasons/if meeting somewhere i usually take my time and look over the general condition of the bike first,talk a lot of sithe to while away the time and then check the oil level in the sight glass ask the owner to start it up,listening for any undue knocking/tapping/rattling noises/gremlins trying to make their way from the inside out..leave the bike run for a couple of minutes and all the time inspecting the engine for leaks of coolant in the case of watercooled or oil in oil cooled,,make sure to check the radiator and oil cooler for leaks,,have a look at the condition of the engine casings,are they scuffed or has the owner painted them up or polished them to try hide damage,any signs of gasket sealer around the edges of the casings where the casings had been removed previously and for what reason or why was'nt a genuine gasket used when replacing..check the exhaust while bike is running for any blowing and have a good look at it for rot particularly around the collector box under the engine..

FAIRINGS...
pretty obvious with stickers that may be hiding damage,cheap chinese aftermarket fairings that line up badly,grand for trackdays etc but overall quality of them is pretty poor in comparison to standard factory fairings,,look for scuff marks,badly painted panels,mismatching panels but not the obvious different colors,same colors but one panel faded more than others,,look at the bar weights for scuffing or replacements,same with levers,footpegs,mirrors,,look at the mileage on the bike,say a 3 year old bike with 20 to 35k on it,about average (with the exception of Ozzy )have a look at the rubbers on the footrests and see if the look worn beyond what would be a reasonable amount of wear,have a look at the grips on the handlebars for wear also and see is it excessive with whats showing on the clock..

AFTERMARKET BITS...
race cans/if a carbed bike ask the owner was it jetted to suit the can/if fuel injected ask is there a power commander fitted,,ask are the standard parts available..if doing a deal on the bike also ask has the owner taken off any aftermarket parts,luggage rack etc,it may be a good time to strike up a deal if their wanted..

If going to buy it's a good idea to bring someone along with you who may not see the bike in the same light as yourself and offer critical advice or see bits that you may miss yourself...

There some of the main points,i know i have left some out as the eyes are getting tired and the fingers sore,,please feel free to add more checks to the list for prospective buyers as its all valuable info when going to hand over the cash...

If you do recieve a call from Renegades to have a look at the bike your selling do make sure its in good order or that the price reflects what needs to be done repair wise to put it in order otherwise i'll walk away laughing

[renegades]

sticky valve, on Oct 22 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

ok not tryin to be smart ok . you said you like to start the bike from cold ok and listen for any engine rattles ok . but when an engine is warm is when i would be listin for rattles as some engines ive heard ore ok when cold but warm them up its a diff story .

Yep,should have clarified that,,main reasons it want it started from cold would be to see if there was a bad battery in it,,listening for rattles tapping as the engine is warming up over a couple of minutes,,it's not always possible as an owner generally wont meet you at their house which gives them time to get some sort of charge into it on a run to wherever the meet is,,if bike is left sitting for a while before starting up again an battery is on its way out it will struggle to start..

[sticky valve]

renegades, on Oct 22 2009, 05:15 PM, said:

Yep,should have clarified that,,main reasons it want it started from cold would be to see if there was a bad battery in it,,listening for rattles tapping as the engine is warming up over a couple of minutes,,it's not always possible as an owner generally wont meet you at their house which gives them time to get some sort of charge into it on a run to wherever the meet is,,if bike is left sitting for a while before starting up again an battery is on its way out it will struggle to start..

i agree wit you 100 percent bud . jaysus ive have some yolk showed to me lad only thing they fit for is me shed to be rebuilt how they stayed going utter sihte boxes

[renegades]

sticky valve, on Oct 22 2009, 06:19 PM, said:

i agree wit you 100 percent bud . jaysus ive have some yolk showed to me lad only thing they fit for is me shed to be rebuilt how they stayed going utter sihte boxes

Bang on,,its the whole point of the thread to give people as much information as possible available to them when going to look at a bike,,lots of good bikes out there also lots of HEAPS out there also,,all information of the pro's and cons or any little tips one may find valuable while looking at a secondhand bike is useful,it may also be useful if anyone wants to bang in a rough guide price for basic consumable parts involved in servicing a bike,,not necessarily the cheapest price but an average say based on a four cylinder bike between say a 250cc and 1200cc bike so as they have an idea of what their looking at if these parts need replacing and want to haggle with the seller or a rough price to getting it done in a shop,,,just a thought

[sticky valve]

true but a the thing is what value does the bike hold to you what it worth to you . is not always what its worth to sell . alot of the time wit the older bikes witch i like people sellin them price them selves out or the market wit stupid prices for bikes just cos there old dont make sence to me

[renegades]

sticky valve, on Oct 22 2009, 06:47 PM, said:

true but a the thing is what value does the bike hold to you what it worth to you . is not always what its worth to sell . alot of the time wit the older bikes witch i like people sellin them price them selves out or the market wit stupid prices for bikes just cos there old dont make sence to me

What the market value is would be up to people to do the research on,,what im trying to do is give people enough information that if their happy with the price of the bike their going to look at that they'll have some checks and tips to go through that their happy with the overall condition of the bike,they just may have enough info to walk away from the bike or be able to determine what the bike needs and be they maybe able to haggle a few euro off.....

On the other side of it,YES there are a lot of bikes out there advertised and lots of them overpriced with the current economic climate and when going into the older market,its a more specialised place,much the same as the custom end of bikes but the object of it is to give your average everday punter enough information that may help them make up their mind..

[Zx10 Rick]

renegades, on Oct 22 2009, 05:39 PM, said:

Good idea FrD,,i dont have a list myself as i reamed them off the top off my head.im sure someone will drop in at some stage to stick one up

Has any one any of the details of a company in the UK who do's a vehicle check for finance and the general standing of the bike,do know there is a company in the UK that do it and if memory serves me right £25 or £30 bought you 3 checks that could be used over a period of time....
They also use a grading system over there if the bike has had a claim with an insurance company,think that runs along the lines of,Cat,A,B,C,D, think Cat D being classed as a write off,which should show up on a vehicle check if the owner or previous owner has claimed the damage through an insurance company.

It would be easy enought to take all the good info from this thread with copying and pasting all the valid points into the same kind of format that ken started the thread with in the first post. As in where you mentioned about the ripples on the fork legs, that could be copied from that post and added to your original underneath the heading suspension. And where rust has been mentioned could be added to the body work heading. Then get a mod to put it up as the first post if thats possible. Its fine to give some one a check list if they know what to look for by reading one word for example, fork legs, but you have to know what your looking for on the forkleg! So for people with out experience the information given so for this is an ideal check list. Just a matter of putting it all in one post.

[renegades]

Zx10 Rick, on Oct 22 2009, 07:10 PM, said:

It would be easy enought to take all the good info from this thread with copying and pasting all the valid points into the same kind of format that ken started the thread with in the first post. As in where you mentioned about the ripples on the fork legs, that could be copied from that post and added to your original underneath the heading suspension. And where rust has been mentioned could be added to the body work heading. Then get a mod to put it up as the first post if thats possible. Its fine to give some one a check list if they know what to look for by reading one word for example, fork legs, but you have to know what your looking for on the forkleg! So for people with out experience the information given so for this is an ideal check list. Just a matter of putting it all in one post.

Thread seems to be running along grand,,,if it was myself buying a bike and had'nt the knowladge (and not claiming to know it all)i'd be quite happy to read through all the posts to try gain as much info as possible from numerous different members as possible,,like i was typing at 2am the other morning thinking and typing but some of my thoughts were'nt co-ordinating with with what the fingers were doing,,Sticky Valve clarified 1 issue a few minutes ago about the the bike running and not running,,i was thinking about the battery and typing about the engine at the same time,so all input is appreciated as it gives all different angles,a check list as FrDougal mentioned would be a good idea,,job for you to work on Rick or the service list from your mechanical know how.

[golly]

On the question of checking the lock stops, you could also sit on the bike and turn the bars from lock to lock. The bars shouldn't hit the tank, and they should hit the stop at the same point on each side (if you know what I mean).

[renegades]

golly, on Oct 22 2009, 09:49 PM, said:

On the question of checking the lock stops, you could also sit on the bike and turn the bars from lock to lock. The bars shouldn't hit the tank, and they should hit the stop at the same point on each side (if you know what I mean).

Know exactely what you mean and another good point

[sutty]

Martin Cummins, who does the motorcycle course in Dublin (the short 10 week one) Has a good check list. My copy got recked ages ago. If anyone is doing the course this year, they could ask him for a copy. He also goes over all that is mentioned in this thread in one evening. So people have an idea what to check when looking at a 2nd hand bike. TBH, well worth the €90 for the course. Was good for a beginner to give them the basics.

[kucuy]

renegades, on 21 October 2009 - 01:47 AM, said:

Ok people,just trying this one out seen as the FOR SALE section in this format is relatively new here,it may be an idea to have a thread running with pointers in it solely on buying a secondhand bike,a sort of what to look for in the bikes general condition and not on any specific model,i'll list some off the top of my head what i generally look for when buying secondhand but the list could be long,it would be good if people could add bits to it that are relative to buying a secondhand bike...

Has the present owner got the logbook when its time to do the deal,,if not i generally walk away from it,telling them when they locate it to give me a call back...

In the case of Northern Irish or U.K reg bikes their equivilant would be a V5 issued by the D.V.L.A...

If the owner gives you the registration number beforehand(presuming it's Irish registered) run a check on it on www.mywheels.ie...possibly sticked on the main page of the for sale page...there is a U.K equivilant if someone could stick up the details..

If the bike is Foreign registered including N.I and the U.K,try to find out the exact date of first registration and do a V.R.T (Vehicle Registration Tax)check to see what amount of duty is payable on it,all vehicles imported into Ireland have to pay V.R.T,think it's payable within 48 hours otherwise the bike can be impounded if stopped,this can be paid at your local V.R.T office,but beware they do not accept cash payment,laser or personal check..www.revenue.ie possibly stickied on the main page of the for sale page also..

Some of the checks on the bike that i look for...

Frame number/usually up at the heastock area around the main frame under the top yoke...make sure it has'nt been tampered with,1's made to look like 7's..6,s made to look like 8's etc...

Engine number/can be found usually lower down stamped into the main engine casings/some of the newer sports bikes GSXR'S etc can have the engine number stamped on the main engine cases just below the main swingarm pivot point,can be hard to find if your not sure where your looking..again make sure the numbers have'nt been tampered with..

Both of the above checks are pretty useless if the owner has'nt the logbook or V5 to hand as you've nothing to compare them against...
FRAME...
The main frame itself,,give it a good look over for any signs of hairline cracks,stressed areas,,check down on the bottom yoke if the lockstops on the yoke are bent or the main lock stop on the bottom of the frame headstock to make sure it isnt bent or marked up in any way,,the main frame itself,some aftermarket companies supply carbon frame covers as a nice bling bling touch but these can also cover up damage to the frame,,advisable to check underneath,if the seller is genuine and not hiding anything he should'nt mind removing them for a check...

FORKS...
i usually run my finger along them to see if there is any ripples in them,,can be a sign they were stressed with an accident..check the chrome on the fork sliders for wear,can be expensive to replace the sliders,,hold the front brake and pump the forks up and down a couple of times and check for oil on the fork legs to see if the seals need replacing..
BRAKES AND DISCS..
look at the discs front and back for signs of scoring,,where an owner may have let the pads wear down well beyond their limit,discs will need replacing,check thickness of the discs,,minimum disc thickness would be around 4mm..roll the bike forward and listen for any rubbing of the discs against the brake pads,,sign of a warped disc,,get down on the hands and knees and check the underside of the brake calipers to have a look at the brake pads and what life is left in them,should be an indicator line down the centre of the pad and it will show you how much life is left in the brake pads..

CHAIN AND SPROCKETS..
Have a look at the indicator marks etched into the swingarm where the rear wheel axle go's through and the plates that the axle passes through,both will give you an indication as to how much life is left in the chain,if its getting to to near it's furthestmost point on the swingarm the chain will need replacing soon,look at the teeth on the back sprocket to see their condition,how much wear on them,are they getting really pointy or starting to hook in one direction,believe me i have seen sprockets with teeth missing or that much wear that the chain is slipping off the teeth,,make sure the chain is tensioned when checking it,that the owner has'nt left it in approx the half way position on the swingarm markings with the chain loose to give the impression theres lots of life left in it,,when tightened the chain should'nt be solid that theres no movement in it,there should be approx an inch or so of up and down movement with the finger on it..

WHEELS AND TYRES..
check the edges of the wheel rims for scuffing/sure sign the bike has been slid down the road,,normal pinch marks happen with clumsy tyre changes,check the wheel paint to see have they been touched up hiding any visible damage,,if the bike has a centre stand,get it up on it and see if you can pull either wheel from side to side looking for movement which will result in the wheel bearings having to be replaced,,check the tyres for wear or see if their squared off,check the side walls of the tyres for any damage,,look for uneven wear of the the tyres,is the tyre wearing more on one side than the other,,could be out of balance,the owner may have preffered left to right hand corners or used a lot of roundabouts continueously taking 1st or 3rd exits if there is a centre stand try spinning the wheels to check for distortions/buckles..again if the bike has a centre stand,try moving the handlebars from side to side which should be free movement,feel for catching or listen for clicking/possibility head race bearings need replacing....

ENGINE....
i generally like to get the owner to start it up from cold/not always possible as most owners wont meet you at their house for security reasons/if meeting somewhere i usually take my time and look over the general condition of the bike first,talk a lot of sithe to while away the time and then check the oil level in the sight glass ask the owner to start it up,listening for any undue knocking/tapping/rattling noises/gremlins trying to make their way from the inside out..leave the bike run for a couple of minutes and all the time inspecting the engine for leaks of coolant in the case of watercooled or oil in oil cooled,,make sure to check the radiator and oil cooler for leaks,,have a look at the condition of the engine casings,are they scuffed or has the owner painted them up or polished them to try hide damage,any signs of gasket sealer around the edges of the casings where the casings had been removed previously and for what reason or why was'nt a genuine gasket used when replacing..check the exhaust while bike is running for any blowing and have a good look at it for rot particularly around the collector box under the engine..

FAIRINGS...
pretty obvious with stickers that may be hiding damage,cheap chinese aftermarket fairings that line up badly,grand for trackdays etc but overall quality of them is pretty poor in comparison to standard factory fairings,,look for scuff marks,badly painted panels,mismatching panels but not the obvious different colors,same colors but one panel faded more than others,,look at the bar weights for scuffing or replacements,same with levers,footpegs,mirrors,,look at the mileage on the bike,say a 3 year old bike with 20 to 35k on it,about average (with the exception of Ozzy )have a look at the rubbers on the footrests and see if the look worn beyond what would be a reasonable amount of wear,have a look at the grips on the handlebars for wear also and see is it excessive with whats showing on the clock..

AFTERMARKET BITS...
race cans/if a carbed bike ask the owner was it jetted to suit the can/if fuel injected ask is there a power commander fitted,,ask are the standard parts available..if doing a deal on the bike also ask has the owner taken off any aftermarket parts,luggage rack etc,it may be a good time to strike up a deal if their wanted..

If going to buy it's a good idea to bring someone along with you who may not see the bike in the same light as yourself and offer critical advice or see bits that you may miss yourself...

There some of the main points,i know i have left some out as the eyes are getting tired and the fingers sore,,please feel free to add more checks to the list for prospective buyers as its all valuable info when going to hand over the cash... <img src='http://www.irishbikerforum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#> /thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

If you do recieve a call from Renegades to have a look at the bike your selling do make sure its in good order or that the price reflects what needs to be done repair wise to put it in order otherwise i'll walk away laughing

Hello, im new on the market for a bike. I am not sure if i am buyin a new or used bike. this really helps alot if i decide to buy used. thanks

[Stellar]

Recent article from Visordown to add in to the mix Used Bike Buying Tips

[Darkcloud]

Always prefer to buy frm people I know :-)

Looked at a bike at weekend.. My IBF experts checked it out for me.. All seemed good until it was discovered that it's been sold a few times in last couple of years... Alarm bells ring for me.. No thanks mr bike seller... might be ok but prefer not to take chance...
Always do background checks

[Gasman]

Darkcloud, on 17 January 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Always prefer to buy frm people I know :-)

Looked at a bike at weekend.. My IBF experts checked it out for me.. All seemed good until it was discovered that it's been sold a few times in last couple of years... Alarm bells ring for me.. No thanks mr bike seller... might be ok but prefer not to take chance...
Always do background checks

What type of bike were you looking at Sean ?

[Darkcloud]

Gasman, on 17 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

What type of bike were you looking at Sean ?

A dodgy one

[Gasman]

Darkcloud, on 17 January 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

A dodgy one

Good luck with the hunt.....

[Empty One]

Very comprehensive second hand checklist with detailed explanations here.
Lots and lots of good tips, incl how to check the manufacturing date of the tyres.

A quick google will usually also find a list of bike-specific checks for the model you are looking at. For example this page on the 1994-2000 BMW F650.