[bikernut101]

This document includes the provision for direct access and other changes.

BN



Document

[proinnsias]

Looks like some serious reading is in order ...

Any initial feedback ?

P

[klu]

Hope they bring direct access in.

Hellooooo R1

[Tazzzie]

Pinned.

[Ogmios]

klu, on 24 October 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

Hope they bring direct access in.

Hellooooo R1

Yes.
They have to under the Third Driving Licence directive.
They can't avoid the issue anymore.

[klu]

Ogmios, on 24 October 2010 - 09:56 PM, said:

Yes.
They have to under the Third Driving Licence directive.
They can't avoid the issue anymore.

here's hoping so.

I'm not 24 for another 9 months but it's better than the 23 months I have left until my restriction expires

[somedayisnow]

The different access routes to a license look complicated at first - the flow-chart diagrams help, need to read it all again witha clear head!

Dunno about someone taking a moped license at 16, then not having to take a test at a later stage for a bigger bike - would the advanced training certificate be enough to ensure the rider had made the transition..?

[Linda]

somedayisnow, on 24 October 2010 - 10:15 PM, said:

The different access routes to a license look complicated at first - the flow-chart diagrams help, need to read it all again witha clear head!

Dunno about someone taking a moped license at 16, then not having to take a test at a later stage for a bigger bike - would the advanced training certificate be enough to ensure the rider had made the transition..?

The training between stages has been designed so that as you get a bigger bike any info you need will be covered in the training.

For what its worth Ireland is the envy of a lot of the E.U. because of the way the 3rd directive will be implemented over here.

Sorry Klu this isn't due for full implementation for a couple of years. You might have to wait out the restriction period.

[klu]

Linda, on 25 October 2010 - 10:10 AM, said:

Sorry Klu this isn't due for full implementation for a couple of years. You might have to wait out the restriction period.

Yea I guessed as much, least it's on the horizon for newer riders though

[Linda]

klu, on 25 October 2010 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yea I guessed as much, least it's on the horizon for newer riders though

Yep and at least this time an Irish minister for transport can't block it.Thankfully MAG Ireland had the full support of Fema when we wanted this as a standard.

[proinnsias]

So, are we being asked for submissions based on the directive itself, or based on the (unseen) proposed legislation ?

It's a thing alright - I read through it last night, and not sure I like some of what I'm reading.

Upsides :
Proper Credit-card style standardised licences (about friggin' time !)

Downsides:
Heavier regulation of how/when/where you can be licenced / tested etc ...

Worth noting :

DIRECTIVE 2006/126/EC
..
Section 3

( b ) Category A2:
— motorcycles of a power not exceeding 35 kW and with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0,2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power,
— the minimum age for category A2 is fixed at 18 years;
( c ) Category A:
(i) motorcycles
— The minimum age for category A is fixed at 20 years. However, access to the driving of motor-cycles of this category shall be subject to a minimum of two years' experience on motorcycles under an A2 licence. This requirement as to previous experience may be waived if the candidate is at least 24 years old.

(My emphasis)

That wording hasn't changed, and was the loophole we used last time to avoid bringing in direct access ..


On the upside - the restricted (A2) Licence increases the power limits, but brings in an added restriction that you can't use a restricted 'busa, s1000rr etc ..

P

This post has been edited by proinnsias: 25 October 2010 - 02:03 PM

[proinnsias]

proinnsias, on 25 October 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

DIRECTIVE 2006/126/EC
..
Section 3

( b ) Category A2:
— motorcycles of a power not exceeding 35 kW and with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0,2 kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power,
— the minimum age for category A2 is fixed at 18 years;

(My emphasis)

On the upside - the restricted (A2) Licence increases the power limits, but brings in an added restriction that you can't use a restricted 'busa, s1000rr etc ..

P

Increases - but takes some of the now-legal bikes (Harleys etc) out of the loop, as it's most definately "35kW AND 0.2kW/kg"

35kW is about 46BHP for reference

P

[The Greek AKA The cat]

proinnsias, on 25 October 2010 - 02:46 PM, said:

Increases - but takes some of the now-legal bikes (Harleys etc) out of the loop, as it's most definately "35kW AND 0.2kW/kg"

35kW is about 46BHP for reference

P

Yep the "and" will be a killer. But it will bring a few of the 400cc bikes into the learner legal range which i think is a very good idea as you wouldn't be in such a rush to get rid of it.

[klu]

The Greek, on 25 October 2010 - 02:59 PM, said:

Yep the "and" will be a killer. But it will bring a few of the 400cc bikes into the learner legal range which i think is a very good idea as you wouldn't be in such a rush to get rid of it.

Exactly.

There's really very few bikes that are under 33BHP once you go above 125CC.

[petecourtney]

klu, on 25 October 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:

There's really very few bikes that are under 33BHP once you go above 125CC.

The internet tells me that 35kW is almost 46.9BHP, can anyone confirm that this is that correct?
<edit>this would rule out the super four for example</edit>

This post has been edited by petecourtney: 25 October 2010 - 03:22 PM

[proinnsias]

petecourtney, on 25 October 2010 - 03:19 PM, said:

The internet tells me that 35kW is almost 46.9BHP, can anyone confirm that this is that correct?
<edit>this would rule out the super four for example</edit>

Pete, that seems correct to me ...

Under 35kW (nigh 47bhp) AND under 0.2 kW/kg

Any bike can be restricted to in/around 46-47 bhp, however ensuring it's not a bike that started with 98bhp or higher is going to be a bugger !
Also, the bike can't have more than an original 0.4kW/kg and a new 0.2kW/kg

So you can't restrict an R1200GS, but an R1150GS restricted will be fine ! (for example)

P

[petecourtney]

proinnsias, on 25 October 2010 - 03:29 PM, said:

So you can't restrict an R1200GS, but an R1150GS restricted will be fine ! (for example)

Clear as mud

There's always going to be anomalies I suppose. Cheers for the response.

[proinnsias]

petecourtney, on 25 October 2010 - 08:47 PM, said:

Clear as mud

There's always going to be anomalies I suppose. Cheers for the response.

The R1200 is 110bhp - so more than double the 35kW/47bhp

The 1150 was a 90bhp, so can be restricted.

P

[Hanna]

klu, on 24 October 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

here's hoping so.

I'm not 24 for another 9 months but it's better than the 23 months I have left until my restriction expires

I don't see direct access implemented not dragging some compulsary traing along klu ...

[pillphil]

Why direct access for over 24 year old's only?
The only good thing is the increase of restricted bhp to over 45, which make's sense. It also clears up any and/or nonsense about power to weight.

This post has been edited by pillphil: 26 October 2010 - 07:19 AM