[FatFergie]

I know this is a bike forum but....as you might have noticed I have an odd avatar. In case you don't know who Troy Davis is a quick google will give you a fairly balanced idea of who he is and his situation.

The news today is that just over 12 hours from now Troy Davis is to be executed. If you think this shouldn't happen please go to:

http://takeaction.am...5049&aid=516533

and sign the petition.

It might just be possible for you to save a life.

Thanks,

Fergus.

[Vixen]

Done, because i believe no one should be murdered for crimes, punished yes but not murdered.

[whose-law-anyway]

Tell him to go for the gas chamber, the idea of old sparky setting your head on fire is terrifying and I heard that the lethal injection must be administered with great care as otherwise it will cause paralysis but immense pain and a horrible end.

I rekcon that the fella sticking you with that needle isnt that qualified and prob doesnt care too much if you die in pain.

However gas is supposed to be bullett proof, a nice easy way out.

This post has been edited by wesifume: 21 September 2011 - 02:28 PM

[Jem]

Done.


whose-law-anyway, sounds like you've been watching the discovery channel alot?!

[fabio]

Done. Did some reading on the site before I did sign it and it sounds dodgy...witnesses recanting testimony (7 of the 9 witnesses did apparently). I don't think capital punishment works either way so petition signed and may god grant him mercy if it does come down to execution.

[Linda]

Well done on behalf of Amnesty I've been sending letters for a couple of years now. I certainly believe that there is more than reasonable doubt at this stage and a retrial should be ordered

[FatFergie]

Thanks everyone. It means a lot.

[Shinwacker]

Just seen this now FatFergie, signed the petition and probably joined Amnesty into the bargin

I haven't read Troy Davis' story, however I'm against the death penalty and I'm going to explain my beliefs, I hope it's OK.

The first question I must ask is the death penalty justice or just revenge by the state. The judge at the trail of the Birmingham 6 said "If the death penalty was available as a punishment I would have no problem sending the 6 off to be hung" or words to that effect. The lads were later found innocent 16 years later. They would never have been found innocent if they had all died. that's the problem with it all, do we really know the truth when it all comes out in court?

Our society is based on us behaving like right minded people and obeying the laws that our elected Representatives have pt in place. In a liberal Democracy we should be free to go about our business unhindered and without any fear. We should not interfere with anyone else's life and in turn they should not interfere with your life. If someone does then we call the police to sort it out. The police as an arm of the state have been given the right to use violence against a person, in order to keep the peace, keep one person from effecting another persons right to live unhindered. this is the contract we enter when we are born in our country.

The state has given itself sole right to use violence for a number of things. The right to defend our borders, the right to bear arms and the right to keep order. Like it or not, our society is based on violence. being put in prison is of course violence against a person, because no one wants to go to jail.

When someone commits a crime they have acted against what is normal in society, acting outside of society. So the state uses violence to put this person in jail. Once in jail all normal rights and entitlements are withdrawn, the right to vote being one, just off the to of my head.

Now in saying all of that. If someone acts outside of normal society and kills some one and is found guilty, then they do really need to be taken out of our society, as we all agree murder and taking someone else's life is totally unacceptable in any circumstances in a normal society.

Now the big question is. Do we as a society have the right to kill someone and act like them outside of normal society? How can we disagree with murder and then go and kill someone? It really does just feel like state sponsored murder and murder is wrong. If we as a society demand this type of action, it then must be recognized that we are really no better than any man or woman that have committed this crime.

Society must act inside the rules it has set out for itself. There is just no place for murder in our society, state sponsored or otherwise. Our society has to be bigger than just revenge for crimes, if not then the whole justice system becomes circular and murder becomes more and more acceptable in our society. Taking another's life can never be acceptable in any modern society, no matter who does it.


That's why I signed the petition without reading Troy Davis story.

Shins

[FatFergie]

Thanks Shins

As you probably know by now it wasn't enough but there are other similar stories with people who need help. http://www.amnesty.ie/

People had different reasons for wanting Troy Davis be allowed to live. I didn't want him to live because I thought he was innocent ( I don't know, I don't know if he was guilty either ) but because I think it's wrong to penalise someone by taking their life.

Fergus.

[Shinwacker]

yeah Fergus, I heard on the news he was killed this morning. A sad day for justice and for all right minded people living as we do. It's sad for Troy Davis and for the McPhail family who lost a loved one as well.

Shins

[Vixen]

got an email from amnesty this morning to say they he was killed very sad.

[Tripleman]

Yep, another one here who'd like to see the death penalty banished and my thoughts on the matter are pretty much along the same lines as yours Shins.

The Guardian. has some images from the demonstration outside the prison.

As much as we would like to think that ending the death penalty is the civilized way forward it's an uphill struggle convincing others. I was talking to an English guy a couple of weeks after the UK riots and he was of the firmly help opinion that rioters and looters should be shot on sight thus elevating policeman to the status of judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one. When I pointed this out to him he thought that bringing back the death penalty to be dished out in such an arbitrary fashion was a "bloody good idea".

Jeez, how the hell do you even start trying to talk sense into twats like that?

[Shinwacker]

Reasoned argument is the only way to try and explain the complex idea of juctice. This whole string them up mob are just a mob egged on by the tabloids who encourage people not to think anything through and then go and look at Paris Hilton's a55.

When I get this the best question to ask is what if it was your child who was shot dead because he was having a bit of a riot? If they have no kids then family member. If they come back with "oh my kids would never riot" ha-ha they have so much to learn. People can have very harsh opinions when these things never really touch them and stay insulated away from the misery this can all cause. It's always a different matter when it affects them and they find out what its like to be a minority, be poor or any of the other social stuff that might befall the human condition.

It was always said at home "don't be too quick to judge, you never know what you might rare." meaning you never know how your kids might turn out, says a lot really.

Shins

[Tripleman]

Shinwacker, on 23 September 2011 - 05:04 AM, said:

Reasoned argument is the only way to try and explain the complex idea of juctice. This whole string them up mob are just a mob egged on by the tabloids who encourage people not to think anything through and then go and look at Paris Hilton's a55.

When I get this the best question to ask is what if it was your child who was shot dead because he was having a bit of a riot? If they have no kids then family member. If they come back with "oh my kids would never riot" ha-ha they have so much to learn. People can have very harsh opinions when these things never really touch them and stay insulated away from the misery this can all cause. It's always a different matter when it affects them and they find out what its like to be a minority, be poor or any of the other social stuff that might befall the human condition.

It was always said at home "don't be too quick to judge, you never know what you might rare." meaning you never know how your kids might turn out, says a lot really.

Shins

It would reassuring to think that this guy was just another flat headed Sun reader but in fact he was an accountant with his own successful business. Flat headed Telegraph reader it would seem.

The other big problem with the death penalty is that it presumes each individual affected by a crime is anxious for revenge rather than justice and justice itself may not be served if the death penalty was a possible outcome of a criminal case. Would those who oppose this ultimate sanction be willing to give evidence that may lead to it, in other words would you stand up in court and say things that you knew might lead to the defendants life being taken by the state? I certainly would have problems with this and consciously or sub-consciously conceal evidence that may result in the freeing of a guilty person. In this case justice would most certainly not have been served and the victims 'rights' and expectations would have been totally betrayed. Again it comes back to the family situation, would you condemn your bother?

It is indeed a complex issue and nothing is gained by pandering to the knee reaction of the snuff movie aficionados of the right.