[Irlanski]

Hi All,

A friend of mine came off his motorcycle on a roundabout in Galway in the early new year. I was riding behind him and we were approaching Oranmore from the Gort direction. There is a relatively new roundabout about 1 km before the big one in Oranmore. It's a small roundabout with no roads off it except to enter and to leave it. The roadsurface was damp/wet and there had been no frost.

The bike in question was an FJ 1200 and whilst banking to the right at about the 9 o'clock position in the roundabout the back wheel simply slid out and the rider came off. Whilst he was okay the FJ was considerably damaged as it slid over to the kerb where it flipped onto its other side for some more grinding on the footpath.

What bothers me is that we could find no reason as to why this happened. The rider himself is a skilled rider (RoSPA Gold)and from my observations riding behind I could not have faulted his approach and how he negotiated the roundabout. He was not going fast, he did not brake on lean or chop down throught the gears, the tyres were in good condition.

We walked the roundabout after looking for a reason as to why this would have happened, oil, ice, sand but could find nothing obivous. We would have been happy to find the reason for at least then we could have learned from it - but nothing.

The council were working on that roundabout a couple of weeks later and they said that there had been a lot of "incidents" there and indicated that the surface may be questionable because of the way the chip/tar was laid. A colleague driving a Volvo car slid badly on the very same roundabout just days ago.

Were just wondering if anybody else has had or knows of similiar experiences at that roundabout...

[heiner69]

Galway has a lot of surface oil, due to the fact that most houses use heating oil. But since you did not see any obvious, how about the rear tire? I.e. was the tire correctly inflated,or badly worn? Don't get me wrong, but bikers these days get the absolute max out of their tires in order to save cost.

[Pagan]

Isnt there a certain type of surface that has to be on roads in Ireland but it can only be laid at certain times of the year? I have heard before of a road being opened where the surface wasnt suitable for the set limit causing a woman to crash and be killed..it was on the telly a few years back. My memory is pure sihte and I dont know the details..maybe someone else will know what Im on bout? Anyway..what I am trying to say is maybe the surface on that roundabout wasnt fit for people to be driving on it..is there anyway you can find out more information about it? If the council said that there were alot of accidents on it possibly due to the surface I think your friend has a case to claim off the council.

[nab301]

Pagan, on 21 January 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Isnt there a certain type of surface that has to be on roads in Ireland but it can only be laid at certain times of the year? I have heard before of a road being opened where the surface wasnt suitable for the set limit causing a woman to crash and be killed..it was on the telly a few years back. My memory is pure sihte and I dont know the details..maybe someone else will know what Im on bout? Anyway..what I am trying to say is maybe the surface on that roundabout wasnt fit for people to be driving on it..is there anyway you can find out more information about it? If the council said that there were alot of accidents on it possibly due to the surface I think your friend has a case to claim off the council.

DBM road surface . I can't paste the link , extremely slippery in wet conditions

[Irlanski]

heiner69, on 21 January 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

But since you did not see any obvious, how about the rear tire? I.e. was the tire correctly inflated,or badly worn? Don't get me wrong, but bikers these days get the absolute max out of their tires in order to save cost.

No issues with the tyres as I said in the original post...they were in good condition and inflated to the correct pressures

[Gasman]

I've had some bad experiences at some roundabout's in Dublin whist driving the van, especially the roundabout at the back of dublin airport. Total loss of control going around it at low speed, a friend of mine in a landrover 4 wheel drive has also had problems there. Can only put it down to the road surface, Its literally like driving on ice when it happens. The day can be wet or dry... really scary as you loose faith in the vehicle itself....

[Tazzzie]

There is a roundabout in Clonsilla, I absolutely wont go near it on the bike as I have been sideways on it in the car a few times when its been a tad damp. The tar is a different shade / texture to what you'd normally expect. Theres also some tar that has been laid recently in town on the quays (90% left hander that I used to love) that I take it fairly hand on again different texture to it than you would expect.

Previous threads: check out: Linky and Linky 2

[Gasman]

Tazzzie, on 21 January 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

There is a roundabout in Clonsilla, I absolutely wont go near it on the bike as I have been sideways on it in the car a few times when its been a tad damp. The tar is a different shade / texture to what you'd normally expect. Theres also some tar that has been laid recently in town on the quays (90% left hander that I used to love) that I take it fairly hand on again different texture to it than you would expect.

Previous threads: check out: Linky and Linky 2

Interesting threads, it looks like nothing has changed in the last few years....

[Empty One]

heiner69, on 21 January 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, but bikers these days get the absolute max out of their tires in order to save cost.

I resemble that accusation.

[Tazzzie]

Gasman, on 21 January 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Interesting threads, it looks like nothing has changed in the last few years....

Aye.

[gsxrufs]

i read something recently where a guy had new tyres fitted and as soon as the first bit of rain came he came off the bike, the bike slid out from under him, turns out the front tyre was put on backwards, threads facing the wrong way like, a not so obvious hazard as it is not something you would usually check for.

so maybe this?

[Irlanski]

Gasman, on 21 January 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

really scary as you loose faith in the vehicle itself....

Thats the problem...it takes time to rebuild the faith

Tazzzie, on 21 January 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

Previous threads: check out: Linky and Linky 2

Good links Tazzie... just resembles our experience

gsxrufs, on 22 January 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

i read something recently where a guy had new tyres fitted and as soon as the first bit of rain came he came off the bike, the bike slid out from under him, turns out the front tyre was put on backwards, threads facing the wrong way like, a not so obvious hazard as it is not something you would usually check for.

so maybe this?

Well its worth checking...we do need an explanation although it looks like from the posts that it was just pure bad surface there...

[Tazzzie]

Just to add, there is a small patchwork piece of tarmac outside my house which I check with my foot to see what the worst of the roads might be like if its chilly.

If its frosty weather, this patch freezes before (and stays frozen) longer anything else on the street. I think its part of some gas works from a good few years ago, but its different tarmac (I think) to the rest of the street.

I'll try get a pic up over the next few days.

[relaxed]

gsxrufs, on 22 January 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

i read something recently where a guy had new tyres fitted and as soon as the first bit of rain came he came off the bike, the bike slid out from under him, turns out the front tyre was put on backwards, threads facing the wrong way like, a not so obvious hazard as it is not something you would usually check for.

so maybe this?

I forget where, but I read in other places from authoritative sources that lateral grip won't be affected by tread direction. Some specials with extra weight on the front require a rear tyre be fitted on the front with the direction reversed. There was a batch of Bridgestone bike tyres that had the tread reversed for some reason and there was no problem with them as a consequence of this.

I "think" the direction relates to maximum fore/aft traction limts (accelerating with the back and braking with the front) which makes sense to me.

[The Mex]

I know of a roundabout that tends to be a bit slippery at times....
(extra slippery when wet)

... not sure if it is the cause or the reason, but I have noticed rear wheel drive boy racers types powersliding around the same roundabout on occasion...

[jafo]

I take a route from airside to Malahide and the Tarmac through the estate called Holywell is treacherous when dry, and absolutely lethal when wet!!
The roundabout between swords and Malahide is the same!
I'd love it if the council threw a load of loose chippings the whole way, it would be 10 times better than what's there!

[Irlanski]

Hi All,

I think we finally know the story here. Like I said in one of the previous posts the council were on that roundabout only days after the incident taking "texture depth" readings using the "sand patch test" This is where they pour a measured amount of sand onto the road and see how wide it can spread level with the road surface. Obivously if the texture has chippings of too much potrusion from the tarbase then the sand gets lost very quickly between the chips. The top of the chips will become polished very quickly due to traffic and this makes for very poor adhesion particurlarly on a motorcycle.

Passed the same roundabout yesterday - guess what - totally resurfaced on for 100yds in all directions Here is pic of sand patch test...

 Sand Patch Test.jpg (16.46K)
Number of downloads: 4

At least we now feel we have reached the reason for the rider falling and we can learn from the experience

Ride safe...

[bogman]

Correct me if im wrong, the councils policy seems to be, wait until there is a fatality before they pump any money into improving the surface at the roundabout